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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number

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725 for the 28th of august 2022

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lots of numbers there richard saunders

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coming to you this week from sydney

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australia where the weather is

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okay

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it was raining a bit but i think today's

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going to be okay but a cloudy sky is not

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good for

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astrologers actually they don't care

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it's astronomers who would rather have a

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clear sky because astrologers tend to

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look at uh charts

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and make things up

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well

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our first story our first report coming

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up today

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is about astrology

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on tick-tock

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now in the past we've looked at things

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like homeopathy on tick tock or ghost

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hunting on tick tock today

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we're going to be looking at people

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casting horoscopes or telling you all

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about your personality using astrology

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on tiktok what can we learn we can

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actually learn something you'd be

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surprised

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following that it's the australian

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skeptic's newsletter read once again by

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adrian hill in canada hello adrian

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and i must thank adrian very much

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because a few nights ago she stayed up

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until three four o'clock by the time it

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was all over four a.m

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to give a presentation for sydney

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skeptics in the pub all about spirit

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photography and that presentation should

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be up on youtube before long and

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i'll see if i can remember to add a link

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to that in next week's show notes

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then it's another installment in the

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book of tim

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three-part series starting today a

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three-part series about the unicorn

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do unicorns exist

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have unicorns ever existed

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these may seem like simple questions

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questions to which the answers are well

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known

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the history of the unicorn a three-part

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series part one today coming up

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in the book of tim

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after that it's another skeptical poem

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by our dear departed late mate jim

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wilshere our voice-over man

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and this week's poem is a very short

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poem and it's called

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god's

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dad

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then to round off the show we go back to

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the trove archives to look for

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references to

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the bermuda triangle

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or the devil's triangle which seemed to

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be a very big deal when i was younger

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in the 1970s

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there was lots of talk about the bermuda

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triangle there was even a song about it

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who sang that song barry manilow

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yes the bermuda triangle is it as

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mysterious

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as we seem to remember

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a big shout out to all those people in

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the past week

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who managed to get their driving licence

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well done

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my best advice to you

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is don't tailgate

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keep a healthy respectable big gap

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between the car in front of you

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and you

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it gives you lots of time to break lots

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of time for other people to make errors

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and for you to take evasive action

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my other advice to you is

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a stop sign which is a big red sign

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which says stop

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means you must come to a complete stop

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that reminds me of my old mate jim

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jimmusha once again who was a part-time

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driving instructor

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and

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he was amazed at how many times people

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rolled through a stop sign

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two bits of advice young drivers

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and if you've had a birthday in the last

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week or you know somebody special who's

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had a birthday happy birthday to them or

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to you

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but that's enough from me

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now it's time to run down the stairs

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and just have some nice hot buttered

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toast with honey what could be better

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while i do that i hope you enjoy

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[Music]

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tick tock the worldwide sensation which

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has millions of people addicted every

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day to scroll crazily through

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looking at all sorts of things and in

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the past here on the skeptic zone we've

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looked at various

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tick-tockers

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especially the live ones talking about

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paranormal goings-on ghost hunters which

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was very interesting

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homeopathy

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and tarot card readings

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so keeping with that sort of theme

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today i thought we'd look at various

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tick-tockers

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talking about

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astrology

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one of the things we've long maintained

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in the skeptical organizations

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is that well when it comes to such basic

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astrology as are you and aries are you a

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libra are you a taurus etc

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that a lot of it boils down to

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receiving what we call barnum statements

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or the barnum effect

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and just to remind you

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or if you are new to this sort of thing

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what is the barnum statement or the

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barnum effect wikipedia says the barnum

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effect also called the faroe effect

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is less commonly the barnum frau effect

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however it is

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a common psychological phenomenon

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whereby individuals give high accuracy

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ratings to descriptions of their

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personality that are supposedly

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tailored specifically to them

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yet which are in fact vague and general

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enough to apply to a wide range of

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people

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this effect can provide

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a partial explanation for the widespread

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acceptance of some paranormal beliefs

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and practices such as

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astrology

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fortune telling aura reading and some

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types of personality tests

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and we've found that this effect is

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widespread

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through a lot of what uh what is loosely

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called the paranormal the supernatural

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especially when it comes to reading

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people i've seen it used in all manner

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of

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face reading for example palm reading is

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a classic example we heard about that a

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couple of weeks ago on the skeptic zone

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with ray

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hyman

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probably a century ago could have even

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been

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phrenology

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there's a great example of this which

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james randy gave me many years ago which

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i've used ever since

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where you give 12 people what appears to

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be a detailed astrological reading based

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on their star sign and at the end of the

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day all the readings are identical yet

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many times they will rate each

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uh their own reading

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very highly

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if you give somebody a reading a page of

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information said this

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is a specific um

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bit of information just for you based on

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your birth date and your astrological

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readings by our well-respected

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astrologer

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and you can get very high results even

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though

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all 12 are identical

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bearing all that in mind bearing all

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that in mind let's have a listen to some

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of the pre-recorded not live this time

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pre-recorded

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examples of various astrologers

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more people claiming some sort of

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knowledge of astrology

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on tick tock

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and our first tick tocker giving advice

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about astrology

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is uh somebody under the handle of

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evan nathaniel grimm

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if you have your sun moon or rising in

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aries taurus gemini capricorn aquarius

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or pisces then this is what's coming for

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you in august 2022 capricorn you're

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realizing you're not where you need to

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be financially and so you'll look for

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other ways to gain resources you're

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disappointed your career isn't bringing

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in enough otherwise your creativity is

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peaking which could give you an outlet

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from these financial frustrations you're

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also reflecting on conversations you've

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had since early may one of these

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conversations will be followed up with

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and give you a new opportunity aquarius

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you're going to acknowledge how much

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you've limited yourself by fitting into

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clear societal expectations you're

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releasing some sense of

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self-consciousness here helping you

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decide to become your own unique

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individual and not care about how

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society can or can't define you or your

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profession in the process you may upset

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someone in your family this

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confrontation will actually strengthen

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your resolve to do things your own way

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pisces you're getting the download of

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the scene

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bear in mind what i said before about

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the bottom effect and ignore the star

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signs he said at the beginning

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those sort of statements could apply in

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one sense or other to many people

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regardless of star sign and remember

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when somebody goes and pays for a

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reading and believes in it

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then they're very inclined to hear

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what they want out of a reading and

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really think it applies to them

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now let's listen to

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another tick tocker

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under the name of elektra

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soul

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she's completely right your rising sign

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is the person that you are of course the

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other placements are important but the

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sun only rules the ego the rising sign

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shows who you truly are on the inside so

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with that being said today guys i'm

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going to be talking about the traits of

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every rising sign and how they make you

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who you are the first thing that you're

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going to do is you're going to go figure

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out what your rising sign is i am going

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to be putting the link down in the

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comments so that you can go figure it

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out for yourselves but i will say that

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you do need to know what time you were

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born out to figure out what your rising

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is so if you do know what time you're

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born out with the closest estimate let's

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figure out what your rising sign

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represents for you right now in this

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part one we're only going to be covering

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aries because i don't got enough time

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but if you are an aries rising baby girl

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you are a fighter you like to deal with

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challenges and you're also very

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individual you hate being told what to

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do and i promise you you will be

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anybody's ass if you really had to your

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soul loves to start new projects as

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you're always looking for a new high the

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edge of fire in your rising signs always

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going to so i think once again you might

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agree with me that that was nothing

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except

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classic

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barnum statements and also

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00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:42,880
we discover that with many barnum

286
00:10:47,590 --> 00:10:45,120
statements they are flattering

287
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:47,600
they always give you the best well not

288
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,760
always but often will give you the best

289
00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:51,680
aspects of yourself or what you hope to

290
00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:53,440
be the best aspects of yourself like

291
00:10:59,910 --> 00:10:56,560
you're a fighter etc

292
00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:59,920
now let's hear what user hannah

293
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:02,160
henninger has to say

294
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:04,480
the most beautiful woman in astrology in

295
00:11:10,310 --> 00:11:07,360
my humble opinion libra women lucky

296
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:10,320
lovely libras you guys are like human

297
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:12,720
barbies plus you have the cutest most

298
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:15,839
unique style ever horus women

299
00:11:20,230 --> 00:11:18,320
oh my god audrey hepburn was a taurus

300
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,240
and i always just think of her when i

301
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:21,839
think of taurus women just super

302
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:25,120
feminine and classy loki a freak

303
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:27,200
pisces women have the most beautiful

304
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,360
dreamy eyes don't get this twisted

305
00:11:35,910 --> 00:11:32,160
sagittarius sun women are beautiful

306
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:35,920
but sagittarius rising women

307
00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:38,320
they hit different leo girls all

308
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:40,480
knockouts that's literally what they're

309
00:11:44,509 --> 00:11:42,800
known for scorpio women they're

310
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:44,519
beautiful but like

311
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,440
unconventionally beautiful they're truly

312
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:49,440
otherworldly the same can be said about

313
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:50,880
aquarius women

314
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:53,360
so once again once again what we could

315
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:57,600
call barnum statements for sure with a

316
00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:00,639
liberal dose of flattery for each one

317
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:02,000
and of course if you're listening to

318
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:03,200
that and you happen to be one of those

319
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:04,800
star signs and you

320
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:06,720
kind of believe in this stuff you'd hear

321
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:10,000
great things about yourself

322
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:11,440
need i say more

323
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:14,639
let's move on to our next tick-tocker

324
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:16,959
and here we have a user simply called

325
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:19,920
amy who's going to be telling us that we

326
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,160
can use astrology to figure out where we

327
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:25,040
should be living for certain activities

328
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:26,720
did you know that you can use astrology

329
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,000
to figure out where you should live in

330
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:30,000
the world it's called astrocartography

331
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:31,040
and it shows you the different

332
00:12:34,350 --> 00:12:32,480
experiences you'll have in different

333
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:34,360
parts of the world so this is what my

334
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:36,480
astrocartography chart looks like your

335
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:37,600
sunline shows you where you'll be

336
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:39,040
successful and happy where you'll

337
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,720
develop a good reputation and where

338
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,480
you'll make many friends if you live

339
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:44,000
close to your mars line you will have a

340
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,079
lot of ambition motivation and drive to

341
00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:48,079
succeed and work hard your moon line is

342
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,600
where you'll feel comfortable safe and

343
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,600
most at home your mercury line is where

344
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:53,040
you'll learn a lot it's a great place

345
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,800
for networking making friends and being

346
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,639
social your venus line shows you where

347
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:58,320
you will have the best love life and

348
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,839
social life you will be indulging

349
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:01,440
yourself here and having a lot of fun

350
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:03,279
this is a beautiful place to live your

351
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:05,279
jupiter line shows you the best places

352
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:06,800
in the world where you can live you will

353
00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:08,880
be happy and successful in all areas of

354
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:10,639
your life here your saturn line shows

355
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:12,160
you where life may be challenging you

356
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:13,600
may experience setbacks or

357
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:15,040
disappointments you may have to work

358
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,959
very hard here you'll experience a lot

359
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:19,120
of surprises it goes on to the other

360
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,079
planets it's uh interesting because she

361
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:23,839
shows us what the chart looks like it's

362
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:26,320
the whole planet well a flat

363
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:29,760
plain map of the planet with lots of uh

364
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,920
lines drawn down each line representing

365
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:33,120
a different

366
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:36,160
planet out there in the solar system

367
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:37,760
who knew

368
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:42,639
now let's move on to user

369
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:46,560
jade what does jade have to tell us

370
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,639
today we are ranking the moon signs most

371
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:50,880
to least chaotic so let's get into it

372
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,360
first up in our stability on 10 category

373
00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:55,920
we have taurus moons taurus moons are

374
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:58,480
unfazed they are the strength for the

375
00:14:03,030 --> 00:13:59,839
rest of us

376
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,040
next up we have libra moons libra moons

377
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:05,279
value harmony and balance over

378
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,440
everything they're able to see all sides

379
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:09,279
of the thing they don't get carried away

380
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,120
with their emotions next up we have

381
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:13,760
aquarius moons aquarius moons get a bad

382
00:14:18,069 --> 00:14:16,000
reputation for being detached but in

383
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:18,079
reality they're analytical they're

384
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:19,199
logical

385
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:20,720
that's that's where they're comfortable

386
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:23,199
that's how they operate and

387
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,480
that's fine

388
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:26,639
i think you're starting to get the idea

389
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:29,600
no matter how

390
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:31,920
many of these i've come across

391
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:33,839
again and again and again and again

392
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:36,079
we're falling right back into barnum

393
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:38,079
statements so just take away the star

394
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:39,680
sign at the beginning and these

395
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:42,480
statements can certainly apply to a wide

396
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:44,480
range of people especially as i said

397
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:45,600
before

398
00:14:51,020 --> 00:14:48,079
if you really want it to work you'll

399
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:54,710
[Music]

400
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,110
so i'll round off this by once again

401
00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:59,920
going back to the wiki page about the

402
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,920
barnum sect

403
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,839
because there's some other really good

404
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:05,680
examples here and i think these are

405
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:07,360
similar to some of the examples james

406
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:09,600
randy gave me many years ago

407
00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:11,600
and see dear listener

408
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:13,839
see if these apply to you

409
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,800
one you have a great need for people to

410
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:18,480
like and admire you

411
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:21,120
two you have a tendency to be critical

412
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:22,639
of yourself

413
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,959
three you have a great deal of unused

414
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:27,120
capacity which you have not turned to

415
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,199
your advantage

416
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:31,360
4. while you have some personality

417
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,519
weaknesses you are generally able to

418
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,279
compensate for them

419
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:38,160
5. your sexual adjustment has presented

420
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,440
some problems for you six disciplined

421
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:43,279
and self-controlled outside

422
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:46,880
you tend to be worrisome and insecure

423
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:48,320
inside

424
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:50,480
seven at times you have serious doubts

425
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:51,680
as to whether you've made the right

426
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:54,720
decision or done the right thing

427
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,720
eight you prefer a certain amount of

428
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:58,320
change and variety and become

429
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:00,800
dissatisfied when hemmed in by

430
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,279
restrictions and limitations

431
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,279
nine you pride yourself as an

432
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:07,279
independent thinker and do not accept

433
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:09,199
other statements without satisfactory

434
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:10,480
proof

435
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:12,560
10. you have found it unwise to be too

436
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:15,040
frank in revealing yourself to others

437
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:18,639
11. at times you are extroverted affable

438
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:19,839
sociable

439
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:21,839
while at other times you are introverted

440
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:22,800
weary

441
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:24,240
reserved

442
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:26,720
12. some of your aspirations tend to be

443
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:29,120
pretty unrealistic

444
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:32,560
13. security is one of your major goals

445
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:34,320
in life

446
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,399
there we go and those statements don't

447
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:38,560
differ very much at all

448
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:41,759
to the so-called astrological

449
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,680
statements we heard

450
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:45,600
from those tick-tockers

451
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:48,079
i recommend that uh

452
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:49,600
if you're interested in this sort of

453
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,160
thing you look up and study the barnum

454
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:54,959
effect because you'd be amazed how many

455
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:57,440
times it comes up again and again when

456
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:00,880
looking into paranormal claims of well

457
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:02,399
being able to tell

458
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,439
by paranormal or supernatural methods

459
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:07,280
information about people you couldn't

460
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,870
so there we are a quick look at some of

461
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:14,240
the

462
00:17:26,290 --> 00:17:16,000
astrology

463
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:32,150
[Music]

464
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:34,549
hi this is rob palmer i write the

465
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,120
well-known skeptic column in skeptical

466
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:39,679
inquirer online and i'm a team member of

467
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:41,440
the gorilla skeptics and wikipedia

468
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:44,000
project gsow

469
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,840
but you find folks may know me because i

470
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:47,440
contributed segments for several

471
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:49,919
episodes of this podcast

472
00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:52,799
check out my interviews from cycon 2019

473
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:56,000
starting with episode 576

474
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:57,919
so here's a little known fact

475
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:00,160
all of my skeptical activism stems from

476
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:02,320
discovering the skeptic zone

477
00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:03,120
yep

478
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:05,919
i first heard of the gsow project right

479
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:08,080
here back in 2012 due to richard's

480
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:09,840
selfless support of it and other

481
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,400
skeptical activities around the world

482
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,960
i can honestly say i'd likely still be a

483
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,039
skeptical couch potato if i hadn't

484
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:19,600
discovered this podcast

485
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,840
so besides giving back to the zone by

486
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:24,080
contributing occasional segments i

487
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:25,760
contribute to the success of the show

488
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,400
with ongoing monthly micropayments and

489
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:30,320
i'm asking you to consider doing the

490
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,360
same

491
00:18:35,310 --> 00:18:33,360
you can do that by following the patreon

492
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,320
or paypal links at

493
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,120
skepticzone.tv

494
00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:39,280
every donation supports the show and

495
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,150
[Music]

496
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:08,640
hello everyone this is adrian hill from

497
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:10,559
canada here to read the highlights from

498
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:13,360
the australian skeptics newsletter

499
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,400
this is newsletter number 155.

500
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:18,240
you can subscribe to this newsletter and

501
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:20,400
get it delivered to your inbox every

502
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,559
other week complete with links to all

503
00:19:27,150 --> 00:19:24,240
the stories

504
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:30,470
www.skeptics.com.a you

505
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,039
but now let's see what tim endum has for

506
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:35,600
us this week

507
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:38,880
hi all says tim one of the hazards of

508
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:40,880
putting on a convention is other events

509
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:42,799
running at the same time

510
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:46,080
skepticon 2022's only competitor on the

511
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:48,799
weekend of november 26th through 27th in

512
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,520
canberra was a one-day music festival

513
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,840
with very little overlap between the

514
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:56,000
audience for either event

515
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:58,720
except that the music festival audience

516
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:01,039
managed to take virtually every piece of

517
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:02,640
accommodation in canberra and

518
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:05,440
surrounding towns leaving only top end

519
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,559
rooms at top end prices

520
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:10,799
not an issue for those locals attending

521
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:13,120
skepticon but a disaster for anyone

522
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:15,520
planning to come from elsewhere for what

523
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:18,080
is hopefully the first in-person

524
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,799
skeptics conference in three years

525
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,120
thus the canberra skeptics had to make

526
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:24,880
the difficult decision to move the

527
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,840
convention one week to december 3rd

528
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:29,280
through 4th

529
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,360
fortunately they've managed to retain

530
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:33,440
the list of speakers originally planned

531
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:35,600
plus there's the added benefit of a good

532
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,919
supply of accommodation options at

533
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,080
affordable prices

534
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:42,559
so book now before the skeptics take up

535
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:44,640
all the accommodation in the nation's

536
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:46,000
capital

537
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:47,919
further details and ticket sales are

538
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:50,799
available on the skepticon website

539
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,230
but for now read on

540
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:02,870
okay tim we'll do just that

541
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,600
structured water taken apart on media

542
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:07,280
watch

543
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:10,799
abc tv's media commentary program looks

544
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,200
at claims of a special form of water

545
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:15,520
with curative powers that you can make

546
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,080
yourself with equipment for large

547
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,960
amounts of money or bypass the equipment

548
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:23,200
and buy the ready-made water of course

549
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,280
for large amounts of money the

550
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:27,840
four-minute episode is as much concerned

551
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:29,840
with journalistic conflicts of interest

552
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:31,919
as pseudoscience but there's plenty of

553
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:34,960
grist for the skeptical mill

554
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,360
how many psychics predictions came true

555
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:41,760
a good simple example of doing the right

556
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:43,840
thing with the psychic's predictions

557
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:46,880
classify them from specific to vague and

558
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:49,520
then go back sometime later in this case

559
00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:52,480
20 years to see if they came true and

560
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:55,039
importantly assess the wording used in

561
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:57,200
the predictions to see the tricks of the

562
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,000
trade and what is really interesting is

563
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,559
that this article is on a site devoted

564
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:04,640
to the paranormal

565
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:06,320
and while you're digesting this you

566
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,760
should also look at the results of the

567
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:09,760
major study of psychic predictions from

568
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:11,919
richard saunders and his crew published

569
00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:14,400
in the december 2021 issue of the

570
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:22,070
140 million dollars swindled by psychics

571
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,200
and the victim's daughter

572
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:27,200
there are lots of stories of swindles

573
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:28,640
among psychics

574
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,960
normally we won't bother covering these

575
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,400
as there are bad people in the

576
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,159
non-psychic world too

577
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:36,480
trouble is the environment in which one

578
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:38,880
believes in psychic powers leaves little

579
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:41,360
room for the quote hang on there's

580
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:43,760
something wrong here and quote sort of

581
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,400
critical thinking and this case was

582
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,480
particularly noteworthy

583
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,480
a brazilian woman's daughter was part of

584
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:52,720
a scheme to swindle her 82 year old

585
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,039
mother out of more than 140 million

586
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,600
dollars worth of art by using a ring of

587
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:59,840
supposed psychics who claimed the

588
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:01,760
paintings were cursed

589
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:04,000
a salutary lesson in the dangers of

590
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:06,080
unfounded beliefs and those who will

591
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:14,549
do paranormal beliefs indicate poor

592
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:15,840
mental health

593
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:19,280
new data quote supports the normality

594
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:22,000
and adaptability of paranormal beliefs

595
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:25,840
end quote countering quote the incorrect

596
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,080
assumption that belief in the paranormal

597
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,159
is directly associated with poor

598
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:32,159
psychological functioning slash

599
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:34,000
adjustment end quote

600
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,320
the figures are a little confusing as it

601
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:38,159
seems that there are people with high

602
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:39,919
levels of paranormal belief and

603
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:42,880
psychopathology but people of moderate

604
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,799
and low levels of belief were just as

605
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:46,720
mentally well as each other which would

606
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:48,559
seem to say that belief in the

607
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:51,760
paranormal does link to psychopathology

608
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:55,200
we'll have to give that one some thought

609
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:57,760
the ups and downs of reiki

610
00:24:01,029 --> 00:24:00,080
a sort of article that has a bet each

611
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:01,039
way

612
00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:03,679
reiki is pseudoscience and doesn't work

613
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:06,320
but it works maybe it's the articles

614
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:08,240
english as a second language style that

615
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:10,880
causes some confusion or maybe it's just

616
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:14,320
that they do want a bet each way or just

617
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:16,640
paying lip service to science

618
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:19,200
probably the latter quote

619
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,679
reiki acts not only on a physical level

620
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:23,600
but is reflected on the emotional

621
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:26,480
spiritual and mental level returning all

622
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:28,240
our levels to their natural state of

623
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,559
balance giving a sense of well-being and

624
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,120
joy the states of balance are due to the

625
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:35,200
harmonization of the different energy

626
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:37,840
centers or chakras causing muscle

627
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:41,760
strains vitality and greater energy huh

628
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,200
end quote

629
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:45,840
what muscle strains vitality and greater

630
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,360
energy okay

631
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:49,520
this might therefore more properly

632
00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:51,440
belong down in the bottom section of the

633
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:53,480
newsletter uh yeah i agree with that

634
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,799
[Music]

635
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:57,039
the september issue of the skeptic

636
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:59,200
magazine is in the works with a major

637
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,279
look at the mysterious and often

638
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,080
secretive world of organized exorcism in

639
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:06,400
australia and not just from the catholic

640
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,360
church

641
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:09,520
plus the latest on our hall of shame for

642
00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:12,000
altmed practitioners dowsing priests

643
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:15,039
tidal waves and of course frogs

644
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:16,880
and if you haven't subscribed yet now is

645
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:19,360
the time to do so contact the editor if

646
00:25:22,990 --> 00:25:20,960
you're not sure if your existing

647
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:23,000
subscription needs renewing

648
00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:24,320
[Music]

649
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:27,279
travel tip and here we go again

650
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:28,799
ghosts

651
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:33,830
10 of the most haunted places in

652
00:25:39,269 --> 00:25:36,559
northern ireland there's a few pubs a

653
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:39,279
couple of castles and a tree

654
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:42,400
a nice eclectic mix

655
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:45,760
nearly all homes are haunted

656
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:47,840
a paranormal investigator has claimed

657
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:50,240
that more than 90 of us likely have

658
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:52,880
ghosts in our homes and offered advice

659
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,880
about what to do if you suspect you

660
00:25:58,110 --> 00:25:56,159
might be living alongside the

661
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:58,120
supernatural

662
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:00,559
surprisingly it's not

663
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:03,360
quote hire a paranormal investigator end

664
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:06,159
quote instead he says quote they're not

665
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:08,320
there to scare you just completely

666
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:15,750
silliest story of the week

667
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,279
ex-psychics warning about the paranormal

668
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:21,840
a piece entirely without irony for a

669
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:24,559
start how can you be an ex psychic

670
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:27,120
okay stop doing it but if you believe

671
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:29,039
you were a psychic then you probably

672
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,159
still are

673
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:32,480
except of course once you realize that

674
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,200
quote mediums are actually convening

675
00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:37,440
with evil end quote

676
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,559
i.e

677
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,200
grandma or grandpa in the afterlife is

678
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,679
actually a demon trying to seduce you to

679
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:46,080
the dark side then the ex-psychic

680
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:48,960
becomes an avid fundamentalist christian

681
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:51,679
quote if you go down the wrong road it

682
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:54,080
just takes one tarot card reader on tick

683
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:57,520
tock one person in the new age one love

684
00:27:02,070 --> 00:26:59,600
and lighter to tell you that you are

685
00:27:03,909 --> 00:27:02,080
gifted end quote she said

686
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:03,919
quote and you are going to go down the

687
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:11,029
well that's all for now until next time

688
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:12,799
this is adrienne hill signing off from

689
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:15,679
the land of bobcats yes we have a family

690
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:17,200
wandering around our neighborhood

691
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:20,399
bunnies that the bobcats eat and bears

692
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:21,840
that you need to travel to the mountains

693
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:22,720
to see

694
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:24,720
thank goodness

695
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,600
[Music]

696
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:45,360
this is kyle from the data skeptic

697
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:48,240
podcast if you're curious about the way

698
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,480
data is changing our world topics like

699
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,039
ai and all this craziness with facebook

700
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,440
and bots and the twitter storm and how

701
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,760
the algorithms that underline that work

702
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:59,440
and you don't want a technical deep dive

703
00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:01,120
you want it you know in the vernacular

704
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,559
in a way that people can understand

705
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:04,000
check us out at data skeptic that's what

706
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:06,320
we try and do i interview advanced

707
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,919
professionals in the field who do this

708
00:28:12,390 --> 00:28:09,679
sort of research and then i get into

709
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,400
interesting projects as well

710
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:14,080
[Music]

711
00:28:17,210 --> 00:28:15,840
we're a weekly show and you can find us

712
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:17,220
at datasceptic.com

713
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:30,399
[Music]

714
00:28:33,870 --> 00:28:31,760
and now

715
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:33,880
a reading from the book of tim

716
00:28:39,410 --> 00:28:36,640
[Music]

717
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:39,420
with tim menden

718
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:47,350
hi my name is tim mendem i'm the

719
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:49,279
executive officer of australian skeptics

720
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,760
and i'm also editor of our magazine the

721
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,880
skeptic

722
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,240
and today i'll be reading an article

723
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:56,159
that we published first of all in the

724
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,600
march 2015 issue of the magazine

725
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:01,440
and is actually a reprint of a classic

726
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:05,039
article that was first published in 1994

727
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:07,840
which is before richard was born

728
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:10,159
this article is called on the horn of a

729
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,080
dilemma now you get this on the horn of

730
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,320
a dilemma because it's about about

731
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:16,159
unicorns it's written by a fellow named

732
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:17,440
anthony wheeler

733
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:19,039
and he asks

734
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:21,520
if the science can get to the point of

735
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:23,279
the unicorn

736
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:24,480
he starts

737
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:27,440
do unicorns exist have unicorns ever

738
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,640
existed

739
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,640
this may seem like simple questions

740
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:32,159
questions to which the answers are well

741
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:33,039
known

742
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:35,120
nevertheless they are not

743
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:37,120
we cannot select our answers from just

744
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:39,360
yes or no the answers have been sought

745
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:41,679
for hundreds of years and even now the

746
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,600
answers are not simple

747
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:45,919
science strictly means knowledge

748
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:48,480
major methods of knowing are intuition

749
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,960
authority rationalism personal

750
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:52,960
experience and science

751
00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:55,360
science as we usually use the term is

752
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,679
the study of accumulated knowledge and

753
00:30:03,350 --> 00:29:59,760
how it was produced using the principles

754
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,360
of replication and trial by experiment

755
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:05,760
it is science's skepticism about

756
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:08,080
existing knowledge that drives our need

757
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:10,640
for replication and for trial by

758
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:12,320
experiment

759
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:13,760
so how do science contribute to our

760
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:15,679
knowledge of unicorns

761
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:17,679
how have these other methods of knowing

762
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,080
contributed and when there was conflict

763
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:22,960
which type of knowledge dominated

764
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:25,279
as for the answers the mythical magical

765
00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:27,919
unicorns never have existed

766
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,240
their natural one-horned animals without

767
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:32,559
magical powers have existed

768
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:33,919
the rhinoceros

769
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,600
top horned animals have been

770
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:37,360
inadequately described and

771
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:39,919
misinterpreted as unicorns and two

772
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:42,720
horned animals may well have been made

773
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:46,000
into unicorn-like one-horned animals

774
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:48,000
so let's start with the unicorn myth of

775
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,320
all the fabulous beasts the unicorn is

776
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:52,480
special and that it is very beautiful

777
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,640
and has no interest in man

778
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:56,640
the unicorn is the composite of power

779
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:57,919
and purity

780
00:31:01,509 --> 00:31:00,159
force and love of strength and

781
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:01,519
righteousness

782
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:04,799
bigger than a horse as powerful as an ox

783
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:07,120
and armed with a single horn more than a

784
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:08,399
meter long

785
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:10,960
it is a noble beast that symbolizes

786
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,279
true and deep love

787
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:15,600
the single horn is bright and sharp

788
00:31:21,029 --> 00:31:18,399
so sharp that it pierces flesh with ease

789
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:21,039
and the unicorn is colored a pure white

790
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:22,000
body

791
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:23,919
with the horn black

792
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:26,000
white and crimson

793
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,840
from top to bottom

794
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:30,240
the unicorn is a noble creature living

795
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:32,960
alone with no need of man they live far

796
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:35,760
away in deserts and solitary on the tops

797
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:36,960
of mountains

798
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:39,279
the unicorn is powerful too powerful for

799
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:40,960
any man to hunt

800
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:43,600
if a lion meets a unicorn the lion runs

801
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,320
through the nearest tree for safety if

802
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:48,480
desperately outnumbered and cornered the

803
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:50,720
unicorn will leap from a cliff to land

804
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:52,640
impaled upon its horn

805
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:56,320
unharmed to then run away to safety

806
00:32:01,830 --> 00:31:58,640
but the unicorn may be taken by trickery

807
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:01,840
and guile using a pure lady young and

808
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:03,039
innocent

809
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:05,600
a virgin is recommended dress her with

810
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:06,480
care

811
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:08,720
and seat her in a pretty glade

812
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:09,760
and wait

813
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:11,840
a sweet song may help

814
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,080
the unicorn is a creature of love the

815
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:16,480
unicorn is too powerful for man but is

816
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:19,679
enchanted by a woman's capacity for love

817
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:22,320
the unicorn passing by a virgin or young

818
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:25,840
maiden cannot help but pause to approach

819
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:27,760
to lay quietly with his head resting

820
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,679
lightly in the lady's lap

821
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:31,039
sing soft

822
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,559
sing low

823
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:34,799
your unicorn is now vulnerable your

824
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:37,039
unicorn may now be attacked

825
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:39,360
but do not aim to capture him because no

826
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,480
man can

827
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,799
restrain such power

828
00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:45,360
all you may do is take his life

829
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,679
and as he lies gentle and quiet without

830
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:49,760
warning thrust in your sword with all

831
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:52,720
your strength and again and again

832
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:54,720
you may yet fail and the beast may still

833
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:55,679
escape

834
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:57,519
but you may just succeed

835
00:33:02,870 --> 00:32:59,679
you may still the savage heart the

836
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:02,880
strong limbs the beauty and the glory

837
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:06,000
the horn is magic destroying all poison

838
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,840
place your food or drink into a cup made

839
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,840
from the horn and however poisoned it

840
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:11,679
may have been it would now be safe to

841
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:12,960
eat or drink

842
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:15,279
or add a sliver of horn to your drink to

843
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:18,000
purify it just place a horn on the table

844
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:20,320
and any poison nearby will make the

845
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:21,919
horns sweat

846
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:24,240
little horn ground and taken called

847
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:26,399
sugar of the horn will even cure

848
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:27,840
sickness

849
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,320
beat and boil the horn in wine and your

850
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:32,880
teeth will be made white and clear

851
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:35,679
as the poem says the unicorn is noble he

852
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:38,240
keeps him safe and high upon a narrow

853
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:40,720
path and steep climbing to the sky

854
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:43,760
and there no man can take him he scorns

855
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:46,159
the hunter's dart and only a virgin's

856
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:49,679
magic power shall tame his haughty heart

857
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:52,559
that's a german medieval folks on

858
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:54,159
let's look at the chinese unicorn

859
00:33:58,070 --> 00:33:56,080
science is associated with western

860
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:58,080
democracies but the lack of science is

861
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:00,080
not so restricted on the other side of

862
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:01,840
the world the chinese had their unicorn

863
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:02,720
too

864
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:06,240
the chinese unicorn the kielin

865
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:07,919
or kin

866
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:10,320
is a most significant animal the

867
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:13,760
foremost of all the 360 animals on earth

868
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:16,000
this unicorn has the body of a deer the

869
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:17,520
tail of an ox

870
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:20,079
the hooves of a horse and a short fleshy

871
00:34:25,109 --> 00:34:22,879
horn and five coloured coat

872
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:25,119
the chinese unicorn is so gentle that it

873
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,280
takes care when walking not to tread on

874
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:29,520
the tiniest of creatures and will not

875
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:32,399
eat even grass choosing rather only dead

876
00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,520
plants

877
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:35,599
to harm such a peaceful beast is

878
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:38,240
naturally most serious even to just come

879
00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:41,200
across a dead unicorn is unlucky

880
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:42,879
the chinese unicorn lives a thousand

881
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:45,200
years and is a good omen

882
00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:46,800
one of four magical

883
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:49,119
propitious animals with the dragon

884
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:51,200
phoenix and tortoise the unicorn's

885
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:53,679
appearance foretells the birth of an

886
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:55,359
honorable ruler

887
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,520
apparently in the 13th century one of

888
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:59,760
the emperor genghis khan's armies was

889
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,160
turned back from its path of conquest by

890
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:04,400
ciao chun a variant of the chinese

891
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:06,960
unicorn announcing it is time for your

892
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:10,160
master to return to his own land

893
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:11,760
let's look at the source of the unicorn

894
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:14,240
myth it all started with the jewish text

895
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,119
talmud where a great ox with one horn

896
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:19,599
was the lead animal in adam's herd and

897
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:22,000
was adam's first sacrifice to god

898
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:23,920
come the flood the poor unicorn's huge

899
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:26,000
size meant that there was no room for it

900
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,880
to join noah's refugees in the ark and

901
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:31,440
the unicorn had to swim along behind

902
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:33,280
occasionally resting the tip of his horn

903
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:34,560
on the ark

904
00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:36,800
this loss of the unicorn in noah's flood

905
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:39,440
is the theme for a song now the cause of

906
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:42,160
its demise here is tardiness rather than

907
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,680
immense size

908
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:45,359
then nowhere looked out through the

909
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:47,760
driving rain but the unicorns were

910
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,240
hiding playing silly games they were

911
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:52,320
kicking and the splashing while the rain

912
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:55,359
was pouring owe them foolish unicorns

913
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:56,880
which is the unicorn by shell

914
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,520
silverstein in 1962 that's recorded by

915
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:01,920
the irish rovers in 1968 and was a big

916
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:02,800
hit

917
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,640
christians found the idea of the

918
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,400
unicorn's extinction in the flood

919
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,760
repugnant

920
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:09,359
extinction itself was considered

921
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:10,560
blasphemy

922
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,880
no all-powerful god would allow one of

923
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:14,880
his creatures to be lost the myth was

924
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:16,320
established and given substance by

925
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:18,640
christians a traveling writing greek

926
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:19,680
physician

927
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:24,800
416 bce

928
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:27,200
crisius described an indian animal as

929
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:28,960
being larger than a horse and white with

930
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:30,240
a dark

931
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:32,800
red head and dark blue eyes a single

932
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:35,599
horn 450 millimeters long came from the

933
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:36,720
forehead

934
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:39,200
the bottom pure white the upper part

935
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:41,839
sharp and crimson and the middle black

936
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:44,160
and this horn either powdered or made

937
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,400
into a cup protected from poisons

938
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,720
convulsions and epilepsy

939
00:36:53,349 --> 00:36:50,400
this animal sounds mainly like the

940
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:53,359
ancient rhinoceros with part indian wild

941
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:55,680
ass part tibetan antelope a lot of

942
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:58,000
imagination and gullibility thrown in

943
00:37:02,310 --> 00:36:59,760
indeed it is the sort of account we

944
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:02,320
would expect from second third and

945
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:04,880
more hand accounts of travellers tales

946
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,440
each retailer eager to impress others of

947
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:09,520
the wonders they have seen

948
00:37:13,349 --> 00:37:11,200
on several occasions when writing in the

949
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:13,359
old testament about the strong and

950
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:16,000
untameable wild docs the authors had

951
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:18,560
used the hebrew world for reim or

952
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:21,520
oxen but the jews of alexandria

953
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:23,119
translating these books into greek in

954
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:25,040
about 250 bce

955
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:28,079
substituted the greek word monochrous or

956
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:29,440
one horn

957
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:31,920
in latin this became unicornus

958
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:33,680
eunice meaning one

959
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:37,040
cornis meaning horn in english unicorn

960
00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:38,720
the dominant english translation of the

961
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:40,640
bible the authorized king james version

962
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:42,160
of 1611

963
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:44,240
widely used by the protestant churches

964
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:47,200
continued the use of unicorn dr martinez

965
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:50,320
luther of germany wrote of the einhorn

966
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:51,760
the revised standard version of the

967
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:55,119
bible has reintroduced wild ox

968
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:57,839
quote from numbers chapter 23 verse 22

969
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,640
god brought them out of egypt he israel

970
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:02,480
hath as it were the strength of a

971
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:03,680
unicorn

972
00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:07,119
from psalm 92 verse 10 but my horns

973
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,520
shalt thou exalt like the horde of a

974
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:11,680
unicorn i shall be anointed with fresh

975
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:14,880
oil and from the book of job 39 verses 9

976
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,920
to 10

977
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:17,520
will the unicorn be willing to serve

978
00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:20,320
thee or abide by thy crib

979
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:22,720
cans thou bind the unicorn with his band

980
00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:24,800
in the furrow or will he harrow the

981
00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:26,960
valleys after thee

982
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:28,720
this mistranslation was due to the

983
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:31,119
alexandrian ignorance of the wild ox

984
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:32,720
from which modern domestic cattle have

985
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:34,960
descended and in their time have been

986
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:37,200
hunted to rarity but with knowledge of

987
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:39,920
the indian single horned rhinoceros

988
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:42,320
also the influence of early assyrian and

989
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:44,800
persian artistic style where oxen were

990
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,040
pictured only in profile with only a

991
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:49,280
single hole invisible contributed to the

992
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,800
misinterpretation

993
00:38:55,109 --> 00:38:52,640
the original authors and editors of the

994
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,119
bible had no intention of implying that

995
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:58,000
the ram ox had a single horn as

996
00:39:02,470 --> 00:38:59,680
demonstrated by the use of the plural

997
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:02,480
horns in the horns of the unicorns

998
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:04,960
which is from deuteronomy 33 17. they

999
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,960
were just inadequately describing an

1000
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:08,560
animal that was so familiar to the

1001
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:10,480
original authors and readers that no

1002
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:12,640
description was needed or given and

1003
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:14,160
having trouble with an appropriate

1004
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,160
translation for its name

1005
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,320
now the wild ox was massive

1006
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:20,320
nearly seven foot tall with tremendous

1007
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:22,160
strength and ferocity

1008
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:24,000
these attributes came to be associated

1009
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,160
with the mistranslated unicorn and

1010
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:28,800
especially so when the wild ops became

1011
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:29,839
extinct

1012
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:32,800
in the 16th century now that's part one

1013
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,040
of this article and we will be having

1014
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:37,200
two more parts of this article coming up

1015
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:38,560
where we'll be looking at the personal

1016
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:40,480
experience of travellers and eventually

1017
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:43,440
the scientific approach to unicorns

1018
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:45,119
but that's uh the on the horn of a

1019
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:47,760
dilemma from the skeptic magazine march

1020
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:49,520
2015

1021
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:51,200
and you can download the whole article

1022
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:52,480
and indeed the whole issue of the

1023
00:40:03,110 --> 00:39:59,190
and while you're there you might as well

1024
00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:03,120
subscribe too and do yourself a favor

1025
00:40:17,589 --> 00:40:15,430
[Music]

1026
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:17,599
god's dad

1027
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:20,079
the father of god looked down on god

1028
00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:21,680
wondered what he'd done

1029
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:23,880
had he created a monster who had

1030
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:26,400
demonstrably killed the fun

1031
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:28,720
he tried to raise a child of the world

1032
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:31,680
to a god of grace and good

1033
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:34,160
schooled him in all the cool stuff in as

1034
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:36,560
much as a godfather could

1035
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,599
he finally blamed god's mother for their

1036
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,760
son's particular bent

1037
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,160
claimed she'd cheated his jeans but

1038
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:46,560
that's as far as he went so he washed

1039
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:48,800
his hands of his son and air

1040
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:50,960
shrugging as he did

1041
00:41:02,050 --> 00:40:54,160
and he put the universe back in the box

1042
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:12,550
[Music]

1043
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,400
now it's time once again to dive into

1044
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,480
those pages look into those pages peer

1045
00:41:20,829 --> 00:41:18,480
into those pages prod those pages at

1046
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:20,839
trove at

1047
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,720
trove.nla.gov.eu the online resource

1048
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,000
from the australian government and the

1049
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:26,079
national library of australia

1050
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:27,680
however

1051
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:29,359
well i recommend you visit that site

1052
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,599
this week we are going further afield

1053
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:33,599
and looking at various newspapers in the

1054
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:36,800
united states and this week's topic

1055
00:41:41,670 --> 00:41:39,280
a another classic

1056
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:41,680
another classic of skepticism

1057
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:42,960
the bermuda

1058
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:45,220
triangle

1059
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:53,510
now this is something you really don't

1060
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:56,079
hear about much anymore

1061
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:57,760
certainly when i was growing up and in

1062
00:42:03,750 --> 00:41:59,839
the early days of skepticism it was a

1063
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:03,760
major topic a major uh

1064
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:05,920
point of investigation

1065
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:08,000
but let's have a look quickly over at

1066
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:16,069
and see what it has to say about the the

1067
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:17,359
subject

1068
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:19,920
bermuda or devil's triangle

1069
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:21,839
the bermuda triangle also known as the

1070
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,240
devil's triangle is a triangular area in

1071
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:26,640
the atlantic ocean bounded roughly at

1072
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:29,520
its points by miami bermuda and puerto

1073
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,480
rico

1074
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:33,280
legend has it that many people ships and

1075
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,000
planes have mysteriously vanished in the

1076
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:38,319
area how many have mysteriously

1077
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:40,960
disappeared depends on who is doing the

1078
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:42,240
locating

1079
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:44,160
and the counting

1080
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:47,040
the size of the triangle varies from 500

1081
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:49,920
000 square miles to three times that

1082
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:52,640
size depending on the imagination of the

1083
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,599
author

1084
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:55,760
some include the azores the gulf of

1085
00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:58,960
mexico and the west indies in the

1086
00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:00,319
triangle

1087
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,720
some traced the mystery back to the time

1088
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:04,400
of columbus

1089
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,440
even so estimates range from about 200

1090
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:09,760
to no more than 1000 incidents in the

1091
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:11,599
past 500 years

1092
00:43:17,670 --> 00:43:14,400
howard rosenberg claims that in 1973 the

1093
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:17,680
us coast guard answered more than 8 000

1094
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:21,200
distress calls in the area and that more

1095
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:23,200
than 50 ships and 20 planes have gone

1096
00:43:26,860 --> 00:43:25,440
down in the bermuda triangle within the

1097
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:26,870
last century

1098
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,079
[Music]

1099
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,240
now this story goes on to talk about

1100
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:32,880
famous cases from the bermuda triangle

1101
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:37,920
including flight 19 in 1945

1102
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:40,160
and mentions that over the years there

1103
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:42,079
have been dozens of articles books and

1104
00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:43,680
television programs promoting the

1105
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:45,680
mystery of the bermuda triangle

1106
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:47,440
in his study of the material larry

1107
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:48,400
kirsch

1108
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:51,440
found that few did any investigation

1109
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:54,000
into the mystery rather they passed on

1110
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:55,920
the speculations of their predecessors

1111
00:43:59,430 --> 00:43:58,480
as if they were passing on the mantle of

1112
00:44:02,230 --> 00:43:59,440
truth

1113
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:02,240
the conclusion towards the end of this

1114
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:04,319
page in short the mystery of the bermuda

1115
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:06,720
triangle became a mystery by kind of

1116
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:09,200
communal reinforcement among uncritical

1117
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,119
authors and a willing mass media to

1118
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:13,680
uncritically pass on the speculation

1119
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:15,760
that something mysterious is going on in

1120
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:18,480
the atlantic a similar phenomenon for

1121
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:22,079
the pacific was also promoted by burlitz

1122
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:25,119
for what is called the dragon's triangle

1123
00:44:30,430 --> 00:44:25,920
but

1124
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:30,440
those of us who remember back to the

1125
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:33,119
1980s 1970s

1126
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:35,359
the bermuda triangle seemed to be

1127
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:36,640
a real

1128
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:42,880
and we begin our

1129
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:46,160
readings from the gastonia gazette

1130
00:44:52,340 --> 00:44:50,000
sunday the 27th of april 1975.

1131
00:44:55,270 --> 00:44:52,350
and this is a story by philip nobelle

1132
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:55,280
[Music]

1133
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:58,640
kirsch the bermuda triangle is dead

1134
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:01,359
nothing gives me greater journalistic

1135
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,680
pleasure than debunking fakery a few

1136
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:05,920
months ago in this column i interviewed

1137
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:08,079
charles burlitz the author of the number

1138
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:11,440
one non-fiction bestseller the bermuda

1139
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:12,960
triangle

1140
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:15,839
although i challenged burlitz's fanciful

1141
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:18,000
otherworldly explanations for ship and

1142
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:20,720
plane disappearances in the so-called

1143
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:22,800
bermuda triangle region off the coast of

1144
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:25,440
florida i knew nothing about the actual

1145
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:27,839
facts surrounding the disappearances

1146
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:28,640
but

1147
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:31,680
lawrence david kirsch playing heaven

1148
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:32,640
does

1149
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:35,920
the indefatigable research librarian at

1150
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,720
arizona state university spent the last

1151
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:40,640
couple of years putting together the

1152
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:43,520
pieces of the legend in a book entitled

1153
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:46,720
the bermuda triangle mystery solved

1154
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:49,359
according to kirsch there is no mystery

1155
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:50,480
at all

1156
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:52,720
if i were burlitz or any other believer

1157
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:56,560
in the triangle i'd be awfully ashamed

1158
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:58,800
the next section of the report deals

1159
00:46:02,950 --> 00:45:59,760
with

1160
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:02,960
question

1161
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:05,760
i don't suppose you have any respect for

1162
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:08,800
bermuda triangle myth makers answer

1163
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:11,359
either it's outright fraud or they are

1164
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:14,160
people with much curiosity gullibility

1165
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:16,640
and ignorance of the facts seems to

1166
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,119
distinguish their work question why

1167
00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:21,040
would an intelligent man bother to

1168
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,079
refute such a preposterous legend as the

1169
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,240
bermuda triangle answer

1170
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:28,800
i didn't set out to refute anything when

1171
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:31,920
i began my research i didn't believe or

1172
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,560
disbelieve in the bermuda triangle only

1173
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:36,640
after i started questioning and checking

1174
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:39,200
into certain disappearances did i part

1175
00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:41,599
company with the popularizers of the

1176
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:42,880
myth

1177
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,839
question

1178
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:45,839
how did the legend of the bermuda

1179
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:47,920
triangle gain such currency

1180
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:52,079
answer in 1965 vincent gladys published

1181
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:55,440
a book entitled invisible horizons with

1182
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:57,680
a chapter on the triangle gladys

1183
00:47:01,990 --> 00:47:00,240
information was based on a few sketchy

1184
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,000
articles that mention strange

1185
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:04,079
disappearances in this area

1186
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:07,520
and on some sensational ufo books after

1187
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:10,800
gladys various magazines like sage

1188
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:13,920
agossi and cosmopolitan

1189
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,400
featured articles on the triangle and

1190
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:18,319
now there are two best sellers on the

1191
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:21,280
subject burlitz in hardcover and john

1192
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:25,119
wallace spencer's the limbo of the lost

1193
00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:28,160
in soft question the government spent

1194
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,359
millions studying ufos so why hasn't

1195
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:33,760
there been a similar investigation of

1196
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,400
the triangle which involves real craft

1197
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:39,359
and real victims answer but the air

1198
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,440
force navy and coast guard have

1199
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:43,680
conducted investigations of all

1200
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:46,160
individual incidents they are satisfied

1201
00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:49,440
that no mystery exists therefore

1202
00:47:55,109 --> 00:47:53,359
no large inquiry is necessary question

1203
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:55,119
is there anything special about the

1204
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:57,520
triangle in terms of disappearances or

1205
00:48:02,549 --> 00:47:59,760
do other ocean areas have similar rates

1206
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:02,559
of sunken ships and downed airplanes

1207
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:03,599
answer

1208
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,839
historically i found probably twice as

1209
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:08,160
many disappearances between new york

1210
00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:09,280
boston

1211
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,599
and europe than have been reported in

1212
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:14,240
the triangle but ever since gladys

1213
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:16,000
triangle

1214
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:18,720
experts have been on the lookout for new

1215
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:21,359
incidents naturally disappearances do

1216
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,720
continue in this area however there may

1217
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:27,200
be just as many between newfoundland and

1218
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,480
ireland

1219
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:30,319
but who notices

1220
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,119
question bullets points out that in all

1221
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:35,520
the disappearances in the triangle not a

1222
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:38,079
single survivor has emerged how do you

1223
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:41,200
account for the vanishing act

1224
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:43,200
of both craft and crew

1225
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:44,319
answer

1226
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,960
that's simple bullitz emphasizes only

1227
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:48,400
this sort of incident

1228
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:51,119
he ignores the thousands of successful

1229
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:53,680
searches the coast guard conducts every

1230
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,160
year in the triangle

1231
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:58,800
question even triangle specialists grant

1232
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:01,440
that a good number of mishaps can be

1233
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:04,160
attributed to natural causes but they

1234
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:07,440
also insist too many disappearances have

1235
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:10,240
no rational explanation is there a

1236
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:12,400
single triangle incident that you cannot

1237
00:49:14,829 --> 00:49:13,599
account for

1238
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:14,839
logically

1239
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:18,160
answer not one i discovered an amazing

1240
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:20,319
variance with the available facts in

1241
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:22,000
popular descriptions of triangle

1242
00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:24,640
disappearances for example some writers

1243
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:27,200
would remark that the weather was clear

1244
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:29,359
when there was actually a hurricane

1245
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:30,640
blowing

1246
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:33,440
or they cite the sudden failure of the

1247
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,240
craft's sophisticated radio equipment

1248
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,880
when it is well known to anyone who

1249
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:41,520
flies or sails that radio communication

1250
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:44,880
often fades and dead spots are frequent

1251
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:47,680
there's just nothing mysterious about

1252
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:49,760
losing radio contact

1253
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:51,040
question

1254
00:49:57,270 --> 00:49:54,319
why do planes and crew disappear with

1255
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:57,280
such frequency why don't they ditch in

1256
00:50:01,190 --> 00:50:00,000
the water and yield survivors

1257
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,200
answer

1258
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:03,280
most of these planes were downed at

1259
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:06,480
night and the chances of a safe ditching

1260
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:08,800
on the ocean at night are practically

1261
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:12,000
zero first of all the plane is probably

1262
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:15,119
disabled and secondly without runway

1263
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:18,240
lights to aid depth perception you can't

1264
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:19,839
even see the ocean

1265
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:22,079
question are there hidden hazards in

1266
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:25,200
search operations as well bullitz and

1267
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:27,520
company take pleasure in remarking that

1268
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:29,760
massive searches often fail to turn up

1269
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:31,200
wreckages

1270
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:32,559
answer

1271
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:35,200
it's extremely difficult to sight even

1272
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:37,680
large objects in the water looking for a

1273
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:39,520
plane in the ocean is like looking for a

1274
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:42,720
needle in a field of haystacks often

1275
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:45,359
ground control doesn't realize a plane

1276
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:48,160
is down until several hours later as a

1277
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:51,920
result they can't locate its position

1278
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,480
these are crucial details triangle

1279
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:57,040
experts neglect

1280
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:58,160
question

1281
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,720
if there's one incident that lends

1282
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:03,119
credence to the triangle mystery it's

1283
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:05,920
the weird disappearance of five navy

1284
00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:08,480
bombers on a routine training mission

1285
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:11,040
off the florida coast in december of

1286
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,359
1945.

1287
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,000
answer according to the official navy

1288
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:18,400
report there's really no mystery about

1289
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:21,119
this famous flight the flight leader all

1290
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:23,599
the other pilots were trainees

1291
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:26,960
became disorientated and or his compass

1292
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:30,000
may have failed he was new to the area

1293
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:31,680
and couldn't get a fix

1294
00:51:35,829 --> 00:51:34,000
for his correct position after

1295
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,839
zigzagging around the caribbean in

1296
00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:37,440
different directions for several hours

1297
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:40,319
in bad weather the squadron finally ran

1298
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:42,480
out of fuel and crashed

1299
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:44,000
since the squadron was out of

1300
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:46,720
communication for an hour before going

1301
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:49,839
down the searchers could not immediately

1302
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:52,240
determine the crash site so it should be

1303
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:54,880
no surprise that the bombers were never

1304
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,920
found

1305
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:57,760
question you claim you solved the

1306
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:00,079
mystery of the bermuda triangle

1307
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:02,319
how did you proceed

1308
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:05,280
answer i took 50 of the most commonly

1309
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:07,920
cited disappearances in the triangle and

1310
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,079
tried to trace down the original

1311
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:12,960
evidence i checked newspaper microfilms

1312
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,359
read government reports and corresponded

1313
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:17,920
with foreign maritime agencies and

1314
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:20,720
lloyds of london in general i concluded

1315
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:22,960
that the so-called experts either

1316
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:26,000
invented distorted or simply repeated

1317
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:28,240
already questionable facts relating to

1318
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:29,760
the disappearances

1319
00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:32,880
for example in the case of the stavenger

1320
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,280
an alleged norwegian freighter that

1321
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:37,760
vanished in 1931

1322
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:40,000
i learned from the norwegian director

1323
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:42,640
general of shipping navigation that no

1324
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:45,040
such ship ever existed

1325
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:47,520
question what is the solution to the

1326
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:49,839
mystery of the bermuda triangle

1327
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:52,079
answer the evidence forces me to

1328
00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:55,119
conclude that no single theory solves

1329
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:56,559
the mystery

1330
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,200
it is no more logical to try and find a

1331
00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:01,359
common cause for all the disappearances

1332
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,000
in the triangle than to try to find one

1333
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:06,640
cause for all automobile accidents in

1334
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,440
arizona it's a manufactured mystery

1335
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:11,920
built on poor research and fostered by

1336
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:13,520
misconception

1337
00:53:18,670 --> 00:53:15,119
and what an interesting interview that

1338
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,710
1975. and now we jump ahead to the 5th

1339
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:24,880
of june 1991

1340
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:27,119
in the gaston gazette

1341
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:30,720
a story by graham hawkes treasure hunter

1342
00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:32,960
lost planes not found

1343
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:34,480
found planes

1344
00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:37,920
not lost bermuda triangle myth still

1345
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:39,839
alive and kicking

1346
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:43,680
miami beach florida associated press

1347
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:46,960
five world war ii era navy planes found

1348
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:49,680
off the florida coast baffled explorers

1349
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,920
announced tuesday saying the mixed up

1350
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:53,760
will only reinforce the myth of the

1351
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:55,440
bermuda triangle

1352
00:54:01,270 --> 00:53:57,599
graham hawks leader of a team aboard the

1353
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:01,280
high-tech treasure hunting ship deep sea

1354
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:03,359
that's s-e-e

1355
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:06,079
said more detailed examination of the

1356
00:54:10,950 --> 00:54:08,240
navy avengers spotted last month by a

1357
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:10,960
remote camera showed they were not the

1358
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:13,839
planes of flight 19 which vanished on

1359
00:54:19,349 --> 00:54:17,040
december the 5th 1945. the bermuda

1360
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:19,359
triangle i'm afraid if you want to find

1361
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:22,079
mystery is probably even aliver and

1362
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:25,040
weller than it was before

1363
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:26,319
hawke said

1364
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:28,720
flight 19 vanished during a training

1365
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:31,680
flight that was to include a bombing run

1366
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:34,960
on a deserted bahamian island radio

1367
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:36,799
transmissions heard at their base at

1368
00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:39,040
fort lauderdale indicated the pilots

1369
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,359
became disorientated

1370
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:43,440
while flying towards the bahamas and

1371
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,119
believed they were flying over the

1372
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:47,920
florida keys in the gulf of mexico

1373
00:54:52,470 --> 00:54:50,160
no trace of the planes or pilots was

1374
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:52,480
ever found their disappearance helped

1375
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:55,040
fuel the myth of the bermuda triangle

1376
00:54:59,589 --> 00:54:57,760
an area bounded by bermuda miami and

1377
00:55:03,430 --> 00:54:59,599
puerto rico where ships and planes

1378
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:03,440
supposedly often vanish mysteriously the

1379
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:06,559
five planes found by the deep sea we're

1380
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:11,119
in good condition under 550 to 750 feet

1381
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:14,000
of water about 10 miles north east of

1382
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:17,200
fort lauderdale we're all within one and

1383
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:19,760
a half miles of each other hawk said

1384
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,079
the coincidence of the plane number

1385
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,480
could be explained by the navy's reuse

1386
00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:26,960
of numbers from lost or destroyed planes

1387
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:28,640
hawks said

1388
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:30,960
the strongest evidence had been that the

1389
00:55:36,470 --> 00:55:33,280
navy had never lost five avengers

1390
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,480
together except for flight 19.

1391
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:38,160
but after looking more carefully at the

1392
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:40,720
wrecks the team now believes the five

1393
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:43,280
planes went down in four or five

1394
00:55:49,950 --> 00:55:46,160
separate incidences over a period of

1395
00:55:54,390 --> 00:55:52,470
[Music]

1396
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:54,400
and there we are a couple of reports

1397
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:55,520
dealing with

1398
00:56:02,570 --> 00:55:57,200
the so-called

1399
00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:05,190
[Music]

1400
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:08,079
now i have here a copy of flim flam

1401
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:09,839
well i might as well say that in the

1402
00:56:13,829 --> 00:56:12,480
front cover here

1403
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:13,839
it's written

1404
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:17,440
to richard saunders my valued aussie pal

1405
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:22,240
james randy 28 11 2010. isn't that nice

1406
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,280
what a great

1407
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:25,359
thing that is to have but

1408
00:56:30,309 --> 00:56:27,599
chapter three of flim flam and if you

1409
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:30,319
haven't read flim flam it's certainly

1410
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:31,599
certainly

1411
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:34,960
a must read for any skeptic

1412
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:36,960
chapter three all at sea

1413
00:56:41,829 --> 00:56:38,960
and this deals with bullets and the

1414
00:56:46,060 --> 00:56:41,839
bermuda triangle and even mentions larry

1415
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:46,070
kirsch and is very much worth a read

1416
00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:49,119
[Music]

1417
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:51,119
and randy concludes his chapter by

1418
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:53,680
saying to charles bullets i say charlie

1419
00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:56,160
if you ever do find a pyramid in the

1420
00:57:00,630 --> 00:56:58,799
ocean via sonar it will look on your

1421
00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:00,640
chart much like the empire state

1422
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:02,240
building because of the vertical

1423
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:04,799
exaggeration of the recording technique

1424
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:06,880
and if you ever say you have found the

1425
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:08,480
empire state building somewhere in the

1426
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:09,680
caribbean

1427
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:12,720
i won't be the least bit surprised

1428
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:14,240
flimflam

1429
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:17,599
and that's published by prometheus books

1430
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,160
although those two uh reports came to us

1431
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,319
from american newspapers don't forget

1432
00:57:26,789 --> 00:57:24,319
you can find a wealth of information in

1433
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:26,799
australian newspapers or newspapers i'm

1434
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:27,680
sure

1435
00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:29,280
no matter where you're listening to us

1436
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:31,760
from around the world because

1437
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:33,680
when you go to trove or other digital

1438
00:57:37,260 --> 00:57:35,920
newspapers you'll never know what you

1439
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:37,270
might find

1440
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,190
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1441
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:01,599
zone next week i hope to bring you

1442
00:58:06,069 --> 00:58:03,920
the trove segment all about

1443
00:58:08,230 --> 00:58:06,079
signs of the zodiac

1444
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:08,240
a skeptical poem by jim wilshere about

1445
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:09,839
the zodiac

1446
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:13,200
uh the part two part two of the book of

1447
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:16,960
tim talking about unicorns and well

1448
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:19,119
i'm not sure what else thank you to all

1449
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:21,359
those people who continue to support

1450
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:23,040
this skeptic zone or those people who've

1451
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:25,200
just come on board as sponsors

1452
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:27,200
via patreon or paypal and you can do

1453
00:58:35,109 --> 00:58:33,030
and if you go there to check out the the

1454
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:35,119
webpage and all the show notes

1455
00:58:38,470 --> 00:58:37,440
on the right hand side you'll see

1456
00:58:39,349 --> 00:58:38,480
a link

1457
00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:39,359
to

1458
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:42,240
all the videos of jim wilshere's poetry

1459
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:43,920
that i shot with jim

1460
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:45,200
about

1461
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:48,799
15 years ago on his lovely property in

1462
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:52,000
the rolling hills and the rolling river

1463
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:53,839
but for this week this is richard

1464
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:55,839
saunders signing off from sydney

1465
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:03,190
you've been listening to the skeptic

1466
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,640
zone podcast

1467
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:06,000
please visit our website at

1468
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,309
for show notes contacts and to access

1469
00:59:17,030 --> 00:59:14,799
the back catalog of episodes going back

1470
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:17,040
to 2008.

1471
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:18,960
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1472
00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:21,760
on twitter at skepticzone

1473
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,839
visit our facebook page or leave a

1474
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:26,160
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1475
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:28,240
you can also support the skeptic zone

1476
00:59:34,789 --> 00:59:31,440
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1477
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:34,799
podcast is an independent production the

1478
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:36,480
views and opinions expressed on the

1479
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:38,720
skeptic zone are not necessarily those